Starting at the bottom

Starting at the bottom

Postby Timmuh » Sat Apr 24, 2021 8:02 am

I started a new game a while back as a beginner coach with a lot of potential and at a 1* school.

After 5 years, last 3 in the NCAA, I am still a 1* school and my coach reputation is poor (but growing). The job offers I’ve gotten have been really bad as well...finally seeing 2* schools this off-season.

I’ve asked for facilities upgrades every offseason in hopes of getting some recruiting help but always denied.

Do I need to take one of the 2* jobs to continue progressing? I feel like I’m really stuck and recruiting seems to be getting harder.
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Re: Starting at the bottom

Postby TripLykely » Sat Apr 24, 2021 10:43 am

I did a run starting as a 0 coach on brutal settings staying at UC San Diego for 40+ seasons, you can do it but it takes a long time. How dialed in is your strategy? You really need to win every game possible and hit the Sweet 16 or better to move the needle. Try to land 5* transfers to help win and build prestige to in turn recruit better talent. Gradually you’ll get better and better. In my run UC San Diego is near top for prestige with a great staff, huge budget and A+ facilities.
DDSCB21 Let's Play - Chasing the career milestones of the legendary UCLA coach John Wooden - Chasing Wooden Playlist --> https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLIVfxNP1tD6mNwqSbZK-ZtxC5ntyd1uiq
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Re: Starting at the bottom

Postby Timmuh » Sat Apr 24, 2021 11:46 am

It’s been frustrating for sure. Honestly wanted to use this as a jumping off school, but it’s so hard to get my footing.

The frustrating part is after now 6 years and 4 straight NCAA trips, I’m 0-6 upgrading facilities. Recruits that are cool go back to no interest after in-home visits or campus visits.

I like the challenge but man this is tough
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Re: Starting at the bottom

Postby TripLykely » Sat Apr 24, 2021 12:05 pm

Oh yeah, I get the frustration. You need a really good recruiter, it's arguably the most important part of your budget at this stage since your coach has no skill and your school has nothing to offer. You're getting declined for upgrades because of prestige. The NCAA trips are mostly irrelevant unless you make a run. What I found works well with small schools is a very simplified strategy so I can allocate heavy practice time and have my lesser talent being masters of my sets.

I don't remember exactly but I believe I just ran motion for the first decade; sometimes bumping the zone attacks to 10% to have near 100% offensive proficiency across my lineup. Defensively I always run 100% zone as it covers up for poor defenders and utilize the 23 and 131 as they compliment each other. For press I use the 1211 press as it has the biggest risk/reward element - my teams routinely average 10+ steals/game. I'm not saying that strategy is the optimal one, mainly pointing out that it didn't focus on a bunch of sets which allows for higher team proficiency; which is key when lacking talent.

Curious, do you have conference movement on? If you do, that will act as a milestone where things get easier as you'll get a bump in conference prestige. In my run it was around 18-20 seasons I believe before I moved up.

edit: the lower end talent often lacks scoring rating but can have have inside/outside shooting - with a slow pace these guys hit a very high percentage of shots, make sure you have a good PG or TOs will be an issue
DDSCB21 Let's Play - Chasing the career milestones of the legendary UCLA coach John Wooden - Chasing Wooden Playlist --> https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLIVfxNP1tD6mNwqSbZK-ZtxC5ntyd1uiq
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Re: Starting at the bottom

Postby Timmuh » Sat Apr 24, 2021 2:07 pm

I just turned on conference movement...that’s a good idea.

I run two offensive sets but started trying to migrate high post into motion. I run man and one of the zone presses but may switch completely to zone as you’re saying.

Often in this game I’ve felt I had recruiting down...only to hit walls the next season. Even with the misses that hurt, I’ve still been at the top of the conference so I can’t complain. I just thought I’d get a decent chance somewhere else sooner
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Re: Starting at the bottom

Postby TripLykely » Sat Apr 24, 2021 2:25 pm

Recruiting is interesting and done really well, there isn’t a concrete and fool proof method. Depending on the goal of this run it may be worth taking a small jump up with a new job just to speed up the grind. My goal on the run I mentioned was a max difficulty start from the bottom with one school so I stuck out the grind. If you’re looking to land a better job I’d take a 2* offer, build the program a bit and then take a 3/4* offer from there. All depends on how long you want to wait until hitting the point where you’re an annual contender for National Champion.
DDSCB21 Let's Play - Chasing the career milestones of the legendary UCLA coach John Wooden - Chasing Wooden Playlist --> https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLIVfxNP1tD6mNwqSbZK-ZtxC5ntyd1uiq
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Re: Starting at the bottom

Postby Timmuh » Mon Apr 26, 2021 7:02 pm

So I’m starting to wonder if coaching opportunities should come quicker for coaches and I’m wondering what other people think.

I pushed through more seasons pretty quickly to see what offers I’d get.

After 7 years at NC A&T where we went to 6 straight NCAA tournaments, I finally got a 2* school opportunity. I chose Auburn, who had obviously fallen on hard times, based on the conference potential.

After 4 years at Auburn...winning the NIT and having 3 NCAA appearances. I got my first 3* school offer at Miss ST.

I guess I’m justing thinking..if a young coach had this kind of success...would they get more offers sooner?
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Re: Starting at the bottom

Postby TripLykely » Mon Apr 26, 2021 8:56 pm

Having done several runs of various starts but not being an avid fan of real college basketball it's hard to properly assess how the game does with job offers. I can say having done a similar run to what you're doing, starting at NAU and then moving to Auburn, you're close to the kind of offers you want but think you may be over valuing appearing in the tournament.

In real life many of the 68 teams that make the tourney aren't good, like all the bowl games in college football. With such a large field it doesn't mean much to get there and leave early, even if you beat up on your bad conference. Trying to objectively think about the fictional career you describe in real life and I don't know if its that far off. Honestly after 7 seasons with a small school getting a job at a bottom dweller in the SEC seems pretty legit and a great chance to get the offer you really want. Just making it deeper in the tourney. That conference prestige really helps with recruiting.

All of the big schools would never consider that coach but possibly more than a 3*, it's hard to say because not all 3* are equal. I'd rather take the 2* Auburn in the SEC job then a 3* Belmont in Ohio Valley offer for example. Going back to my run that was similar, I had 7 seasons at NAU making the NCAA tourney the last four - 2nd round loss, Final Four, Sweet 16, Elite 8 - and then went to Auburn. It was another 7 seasons at Auburn, which probably could have been less if I didn't experiment with strategy the first few seasons as I missed the tourney until my 4th season. The team then with Elite 8, Sweet 16, Sweet 16, and got 4* offers and now after losing in the 2nd round have 5* offers. All said roughly 14 seasons to get 5* offers.

In a run I mentioned prior with Wisconsin I started as a 100 rated coach, its taken 12 seasons - winning 7 National Championships - to get a comparable 5* job offer. You'd think after a run only beat by Wooden with UCLA I'd have my pick of schools (not the point of this run but still) but Villanova was the only 5* interested so far.

My best guess is job offers are tied to coach reputation, ratings, and experience. The weight that any of those areas has or the impact of particular events on reputation is most likely what would need to be looked at and my hunch is experience is the culprit.

In the scenario you present and the ones I mentioned experience seems similar despite the other differences. Part of the issue may simply be the attraction of starting your coaching career as a head coach vs an assistant. I'm not sure how that works in-game but in real life across sports its common to see assistants move up in their programs. Starting as an assistant at Wisconsin is a better way to end up head coach than starting as HC of Northern Arizona, unless you went ham at NAU. The question then becomes, how well do you need to do at a small school for a big school to notice you despite lack of experience?

I'm curious in your run, what are your coach ratings and what is your coach reputation? Have you looked up the coaches of the schools you'd like to offer you a job - are your ratings in line with theirs?
DDSCB21 Let's Play - Chasing the career milestones of the legendary UCLA coach John Wooden - Chasing Wooden Playlist --> https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLIVfxNP1tD6mNwqSbZK-ZtxC5ntyd1uiq
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Re: Starting at the bottom

Postby Timmuh » Tue Apr 27, 2021 10:22 am

Great message as usual and thinking more about it, you’re probably right.

7 years seems like a lot but getting a chance at A struggling major conference team seems realistic.

My coaching rep isn’t growing as fast as I thought it might. I’m still only at 47…guessing because my team has had very little success in the NCAA tournament.
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