Issue - Top Level receivers

[NotMikeZimmer]

Maybe this is the way you want it to work, or maybe there is no good way to fix it but I think top level WRs (90+ OVR) are way too effective at the moment.

In one Test league I am running there are 2 WR with 2000+ receiving yards, and a third with almost 1900. Even with a 17 game season this is pretty crazy.

I understand that 2000+ receiving yards is theoretically possible BUT even with the extra game only one, maybe two WRs in nfl history would have been on pace to hit that mark.

Their target percentages are reasonable-ish (39%, and 29%) but they are completely impossible to cover, even when they are selected as the target player and covered by similarly elite CBs. The coverage system is much better, but the actual results of coverage fall off a cliff once the receives reach a certain quality. Even Randy Moss, Jerry Rice, and (except for one year) Calvin Johnson never played at that level. 131/128 yards per game for two different receivers in one season is just crazy.

sorry to rant but its pretty frustrating to watch teams get completely torched like this every single game with no effective counter options. Not to say I want these receivers to be useless, but In my opinion as players we need options to atleast limit them when we see it coming and we have good Secondary players.

[brooks_piggott]

I can try tuning it a bit.

[Cleasby]

I can try tuning it a bit.

Just another obersation Brooks. From FA and in current build I see a lot of receivers making catches in double coverage. Unfortunately I dont have data to prove it just visual observations but seems like QBs throw into double coverage a lot and WRs make a play there too. This might be a factor when thinking of the issue above as often its the WR1 who has double coverage but it does not seem to have the intended impact.

Appreciate its a balance thing and double coverage should not work everytime.

[NotMikeZimmer]

I often see QBs throwing into double or triple coverage over the middle as well. I suspect part of the issue in both instances is related to size difference. It seems that larger recievers/TEs do extremely well in double or triple cover(as they probably should) but maybe too well.

I agree the QB logic doesn't seem to take number of covering defenders into account very well. Even with high intelligence and Position skill QBs. But maybe the 2d is slighly deceptive and the receivers are actually open in some of these cases?

it's not a huge issue but it would be nice to see QBs generally preferring more open (or less covered WRs) over more covered WRs. Though of course real QBs often fail to identify open WRs and I understand it shouldn't be perfect.

[brooks_piggott]

The QB follows the target percentage set in the play. So if it's set to 80% for a particular receiver most of the time he's going there even into double coverage. We'll have to look at options to expand on this in the future.

[NotMikeZimmer]

gotcha. I guess it was foolish, but I always assumed that target percentages were guidelines that were modified by some kind of logic with INT and position skill checks.

I realize it is way too late to add anything like this now, but Passing targets really should be determined by some kind of algorithm.

[brooks_piggott]

Oh, it's always a lot more complicated than I lead on. I don't really like divulging all of the logic in the game so I comment in generalities. The targeting for the QB absolutely takes more stuff into account than just the 80%... I just have to be careful because if I increase the QB autonomy then I get tons of complaints on why the QB isn't throwing to their 80% receiver 80% of the time.

I will say there is code in there to detect open receivers. And I'll also say that using the 2d is tough because the circles are much larger than what the actual players are so we can make the letters/numbers readable... like 3-4x larger.

But also ties into an issue across lots of our user base... there are some that want full control and want the game to follow play design exactly, and follow percentages exactly, and so on, where other gamers want the coaches to adjust playcalling, change decisions based on scenario instead of percentages, or players to deviate from play design, etc. It's a constant problem to make sure both sides are satisfied, or both sides are angry at me equally.

[NotMikeZimmer]

OK. that makes sense. I was a little suprised by the simpler answer.

I certainly hope no one is angry at you, wherever you decide to strike the balance. It's not like any competitors are doing anything close to what this game does.

I personally would much prefer the QBs had more autonomy, made "reads" and reacted to coverage, I think that is more realistic and leads to more strategic game play. But can understand If that doesn't work you, or the fan base at large. If double coverage is not a deterrent and doesn't reduce competition percentage then it is entirely pointless (not saying this is the case).

I figured that was the case with the 2d, otherwise a lot of things wouldn't make sense. thanks for the more in depth answer Brooks.

[brooks_piggott]

6.0.1 has some tuning to bring receiving back into a better spot