Quarterbacks with magic motors.

Re: Quarterbacks with magic motors.

Postby Fire-Bred » Fri Nov 26, 2021 11:04 am

zac wrote:I think what feels off to me about QB running (mind you I haven't tested a ton in 22 in some of the latest patches) but it often feels like in DDSPF 21 game and the little I've played DDSPF 22 that in order to get QB rushing yards even for fast QBs you have to call a good amount of QB run plays. To me what makes a dual threat QB dangerous isn't their ability to run QB desined runs but to scramble and make a 9 yard gain on a broken pass play. To me a much higher percentage of QB run success should be on scrambles. Maybe that was what it was like in 20 version but I didn't have a fast QB on my team so not 100% what 20 was like.

On flip side, more tools could be needed to give defense options to try to contain the scramble of the QB (at risk of opening up more passing lanes). Really making a dual threat QB feel like a real threat. Do you gameplan to stop their scramble and risk they pick you apart in the air more?

If I want to run a designed run play, I usually prefer to just give it to the RB.


This
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Re: Quarterbacks with magic motors.

Postby Cleasby » Fri Nov 26, 2021 11:15 am

Fire-Bred wrote:
zac wrote:I think what feels off to me about QB running (mind you I haven't tested a ton in 22 in some of the latest patches) but it often feels like in DDSPF 21 game and the little I've played DDSPF 22 that in order to get QB rushing yards even for fast QBs you have to call a good amount of QB run plays. To me what makes a dual threat QB dangerous isn't their ability to run QB desined runs but to scramble and make a 9 yard gain on a broken pass play. To me a much higher percentage of QB run success should be on scrambles. Maybe that was what it was like in 20 version but I didn't have a fast QB on my team so not 100% what 20 was like.

On flip side, more tools could be needed to give defense options to try to contain the scramble of the QB (at risk of opening up more passing lanes). Really making a dual threat QB feel like a real threat. Do you gameplan to stop their scramble and risk they pick you apart in the air more?

If I want to run a designed run play, I usually prefer to just give it to the RB.


This


100% agree with this view.
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Re: Quarterbacks with magic motors.

Postby brooks_piggott » Fri Nov 26, 2021 11:45 am

There are 2 paths in the game... one for designed QB runs (or some plays have a small pct chance for qb to keep the ball) which are to try and get QB's large amounts of attempts to try and replicate actual rushing QB's.

The second path is scramble, which is where they will take off running on pass plays in certain scenarios... in either way the success rates depend on traits, intelligence, other ratings, etc. to determine how successful they are.
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Re: Quarterbacks with magic motors.

Postby ashantewarrier » Fri Nov 26, 2021 6:26 pm

Thank you for the patch today Gary.
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Re: Quarterbacks with magic motors.

Postby clamel » Tue Nov 30, 2021 8:13 am

zac wrote:I think what feels off to me about QB running (mind you I haven't tested a ton in 22 in some of the latest patches) but it often feels like in DDSPF 21 game and the little I've played DDSPF 22 that in order to get QB rushing yards even for fast QBs you have to call a good amount of QB run plays. To me what makes a dual threat QB dangerous isn't their ability to run QB desined runs but to scramble and make a 9 yard gain on a broken pass play. To me a much higher percentage of QB run success should be on scrambles. Maybe that was what it was like in 20 version but I didn't have a fast QB on my team so not 100% what 20 was like.

On flip side, more tools could be needed to give defense options to try to contain the scramble of the QB (at risk of opening up more passing lanes). Really making a dual threat QB feel like a real threat. Do you gameplan to stop their scramble and risk they pick you apart in the air more?

If I want to run a designed run play, I usually prefer to just give it to the RB.


I can only agree on this. QBs like Lamar, Kyler and such are coming out of the woodwork today. In the past we had a couple (Bobby Douglass, R Cunningham and Vick) and those other great dual-QB in college never got much of a shot in NFL. It's a trend with much more mobile QBs, but as Zac say they are running from busted pass-plays or like Lamar from designed Option-plays.
Harbaugh chances his intere offensive set at Ravens to adapt to Lamar skill to run whenever he saw a possibility from a pass-play. But as mentioned the very long runs should be limited.
I've tried tweaking Harbaughs set off running Ravens and it really differ if it set close to focus on run. Lamar could go from even minus with West Coast to 4-500y per season with that change.
The defense maybe should have an option of the "Spy" on the QB set on some LB. Hard for the AI, but facing a special kind of mobile QB it would be normal to set this.

(Still can't help pushing for the speedy return of the WR end-around, reverse plays) The game needs this since also in that category of WR they are starting to be more versatile. Every game you see IRL more than one of these plays are on, so this game should have it IMHO.
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Re: Quarterbacks with magic motors.

Postby drumr » Tue Nov 30, 2021 9:25 am

Yeah this latest patch seems to have killed QB rushing again. Just got through testing it and looking at our 1st weeks sim. I was really excited till this patch. We're letting perfect be the enemy of good here. Looking at that picture what was the complaint some QBs are getting 70 yard runs occasionally? There wasn't a single QB in that rushing yards column. I'm sorry. An 80/80 QB should be capable of long runs. The game isn't supposed to be a perfect representation of the NFL (where QB rushing has been increasing btw)
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Re: Quarterbacks with magic motors.

Postby drumr » Tue Nov 30, 2021 9:29 am

The more I think about it the more I think it was fine where it was. If you're out here running 80/80 running QBs and the team you're facing barely has defensive players over 80 speed of course these guys are gonna break off insane runs. Just edit your leagues and players to get your desired results. Not nerf the players or plays.
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Re: Quarterbacks with magic motors.

Postby brooks_piggott » Tue Nov 30, 2021 10:30 am

All I did in the patch was nerf certain long runs for QB's so they weren't always going for 80-100 yard runs where the db couldn't catch up. And I buffed shorter runs with QB's so that overall the rushing numbers should still be in line. So now QB rushing should be roughly in line with RB as far as averages, R40, long runs, etc.

I tested in both cpu leagues and default leagues and I'm still getting QB's hitting 1000 yards if they have good ratings and can keep up a close to 7 ypc average, where middling QB's get more like 4-5 ypc and closer to 500 yards per season.
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Re: Quarterbacks with magic motors.

Postby Fire-Bred » Tue Nov 30, 2021 10:51 am

At CSFL's current rate we will be lucky to see a QB with over 500 yards rushing
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Re: Quarterbacks with magic motors.

Postby KW77 » Wed Dec 01, 2021 6:43 pm

Also I've said this before, but I find no reason to QB rush in this engine (or the previous) because they're all fumble machines. it's wildly variable, but my tests showed a fumble every ~ 7-10 QB rushing attempts. Would love to see that addressed some day.

That's a nerf on QB rushing more than anything else.
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