End of Half Clock Management

[Colly]

I can see how the current logic applies to those who sim games.

However, as a player who does not play that way, I'd prefer much more control in terms of what I implement - like in the real world. Regardless of whether my actions positively impact the results in my favour (yes I'm British), I'd still prefer to make those choices and not have the AI make them for me.

Hence my original suggestion of implementing a similar system to that used in Pro Strategy Football whereby the player can choose how to control the clock strategy before each play is called.

Having the AI do it totally ignores how a certain trenche of players play the game in favour of how sim-gamers play. I'd just like the option to have control.

[brooks_piggott]

A lot of this is balance between the AI taking over and doing what we think is the 99% of the time call, versus respecting the playbooks and ratios that people have set up. Some folks want the AI to always override and call runs and spikes, etc. but other folks get mad when they have it set to 100% pass and they still see a run and don't want me overriding things. Can't make both sides happy so we balance it somewhere in the middle. It's not perfect and we get yelled at by both sides pretty equally so I think it's in a good spot.

Obviously calling your own plays and playing out the games gives you a lot more control since you can call timeouts and spikes and only run plays regardless of your ratios. You can also set you package in the game specifically so it ignores the AI package selection. The only time the AI should sub out your players is if they are tired, winded, or injured.

[Nightowl_99]

Thanks for the response, Brooks. I haven't been around here for long, granted; but I don't recall anyone on "the other side" of the issue complaining. That said, if what I consistently observe is balanced "somewhere in the middle," then I give up. The AI logic is so illogical so often, it seems broken to me. I guess I have no choice but to live with it. Thanks again for the reply.

[brooks_piggott]

Looking at the pbp you mentioned, yes it's working as designed. The game won't kneel if the other team has timeouts that would kill the clock anyway so they run plays... they're heavily weighted towards running the ball with a lead, but again, it depends on ratios so there will still be a decent chance they throw a pass depending on other factors. The losing team won't call timeouts after it's down a certain amount if the clock is really low, which causes the conflict with the kneeling.

So is it perfect? Nope... we designed it to be imperfect on purposes. I can pick out any number of NFL or College games where teams make odd choices... every single week. Is it realistic? Yup. Is it believable? Yup. Is it broken? Not in my opinion, but we are always looking to add more logic to the scenarios, so feel free to keep reporting them and I can take a look. But if it just comes down to following a playbook or ratio or just random numbers, there may not be much we do about it.

[Nightowl_99]

Two suggestions: (1) If kneeling down, once or twice, will drain the clock and prevent the other team from getting the ball, then that's what the AI should do 99.9% of the time. I can't remember ever seeing a real life coach do otherwise. It should be hard for the human player to override that logic, IMO. (2) Take a good hard look at the amount of time being used from one play to the next. It should be consistent, if the clock is running -- unless the offense is in hurry-up mode. I often see the offense snap the ball with what must be 15 or 20 seconds left on the play clock. Nothing about the context suggests that they're in hurry up mode. In fact, the variance from one play to the next shows little consistency. This is an issue throughout the game, but it seems acute when it happens near the end of a half. Combine #2 with #1 and you've got the makings of some real implausible results. Again, I'm new here, and I apologize if I'm showing my ignorance. What I suspect is happening is that most people don't worry about the nitty gritty play by play. They're more interested in the macro view of things. And, granted, from that perspective, the game really shines. No doubt about it.

[Nightowl_99]

Not to beat a dead horse, but this is an odd one. UTSA trails MTSU, 35-18, when they score a TD with 2:30 left in the game. The score is now 35-25. UTSA tries an on-side kick and is successful! On the ensuing drive, during which they use their 3 time outs, UTSA scores a TD with 1:12 left to make it 35-32. So, what do they do next? They kick deep! MTSU kneels the ball and wins the game.

The good: UTSA's earlier on-side kick.
The good: MTSU kneels the ball.
The bad: UTSA kicks deep with no time outs left.

[Colly]

Not to beat a dead horse, but this is an odd one. UTSA trails MTSU, 35-18, when they score a TD with 2:30 left in the game. The score is now 35-25. UTSA tries an on-side kick and is successful! On the ensuing drive, during which they use their 3 time outs, UTSA scores a TD with 1:12 left to make it 35-32. So, what do they do next? They kick deep! MTSU kneels the ball and wins the game.

The good: UTSA's earlier on-side kick.
The good: MTSU kneels the ball.
The bad: UTSA kicks deep with no time outs left.

I think if we could be given a bit more control over the clock in future releases it would solve a lot of the problems folks who play each play experience.
For me it's been like this so long now it's just something I put up with for the most part and only becomes a real issue when the games are close. I'm hoping Brookss looks at this more for future releases or updates.

[Nightowl_99]

It's been like this for so long? I was afraid of that. No sense in me beating my head against the brick wall, I guess. Oh, well. I like the game a lot. But I could love it, if only...

[brooks_piggott]

The code is set to not be 100% on onside kick decisions... there are very few hardcoded 100% rolls that we use mainly to give room for coaches to make bad decisions which absolutely mirrors real life. So sure, if you analyze and look through pbp you're going to find cases where the coach made the wrong decision, and that's by design. We're constantly looking to add more to the logic to make it more authentic and realistic, but it will continue to take time to get to all of these scenarios.

Onsides kick decisions are made by the player in play game mode. The AI does relatively little in play game mode... roster substitutions for tiredness is pretty much it. Everything else related to play calls, desired personnel packages, timeouts, onside kicks, FG, punt, etc. are all done by the player and the AI doesn't override it. Other than giving players more control over the subs I'm not exactly sure what else you're looking for AI related in that mode.

[Nightowl_99]

Interesting. But the AI has to be programmed to act when a human player does not control the team, right? I'm all for allowing variance in AI playcalling; it just seems that some situations -- not many, but some -- leave no room for variance. Like calling for the on-side kick when your team has no timeouts and just a minute remains. Or using up as much clock as possible before running a play -- i.e., not snapping the ball with 15 or 20 seconds left on the play clock -- when the opponent is desperate to have those precious extra seconds near the end of a game. Or throwing the ball deep --- not short, and certainly not running the ball -- when your team has 80 yards to go in less than a minute with no timeouts. It seems to me that playcalling options should be severely limited in certain game situations. I have no problem with allowing the human player to do ridiculous things. I just think the AI should be programmed to avoid such mistakes, especially when the game is on the line. If I'm playing against the AI, I get no pleasure from winning because the AI playcalling gave the AI no chance to win. Or the AI gave me a chance to win when it didn't have to. I hope that makes sense. I hope that doesn't sound unreasonable. As I've said before, there's SO MUCH to like about this game. Late game playcalling is the one thing that can really sour the whole experience.