Is this a game?

Is this a game?

Postby sgran70 » Fri Feb 24, 2023 3:40 pm

This is my rant after 2 months of play.

This isn't a game.

Nothing the game tells me helps me win. The fog of war is so strong that I'm better off automating the entire game. So then what is the game?

I recruit point guards, 2s, forwards and centers and play them where they should be in a standard motion offense. I lose. Games go south and I try to adjust (too many turnovers: increase the speed: more turnovers). I lose.

I get frustrated and tell the AI to make my line-up. It puts my freshman small forward at point guard. The one with zero knowledge of any offense. Why? Who knows? who made this line-up? If my assistant coach knows that he has secret skills, then why doesn't he tell me? Is this a Good Will Hunting thing where the genius janitor rewrote my white board overnight? How am I supposed to guess that my freshman small forward is my best point guard?

I recruit players and everything about them was wrong.

Some randomness is good. Complete randomness isn't a game.
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Re: Is this a game?

Postby PointGuard » Fri Feb 24, 2023 5:43 pm

Sorry to hear you're so frustrated.

This is TOTALLY outside of what I've experienced with DDSCB (even when I was first playing the game).

I don't know the specifics of how you set up your CB association and your coach, but the AI has never done (for me) what you are saying about starting an inexperienced freshman SF at PG or getting recruits with totally random abilities. I also have not encountered the level of randomness you seem to feel there is.

Here's a suggestion to maybe help you get a better feel for DDSCB and learn it. Set up a new association with your coach as a VERY highly experienced/skilled coach with somewhat mid-level philosophies. Take a job at a VERY good (high prestige) team and make sure you have good assistant coaches (so they will be better at evaulating your players and recruits). Make sure your team practices the sets you will employ during games so that their level of familiarity with those sets improves (and therefore there will be fewer turnovers). Play out a season that way...obviously your team should do pretty well. But this will let you get familiar with DDSCB without getting frustrated. Then as you gain more familiarity and comfort with DDSCB, you can set up another association with a less talented coach and not as strong a team, etc and be able to proceed without the problems you have presently encountered.
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Re: Is this a game?

Postby sgran70 » Sat Feb 25, 2023 1:49 pm

Once I'm done with a sandbox game with Illinois State I'll play a normal coach progression game.

I just want to believe that the game rewards smart play, but at points I feel like I'm not helping anything by touching the dials.

But what I guess what the game was trying to tell me was that I misunderstood what's important in a point guard. I was going under the assumption that a good point has handle, passing, IQ and knowledge of the offense. Apparently not.
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Re: Is this a game?

Postby NCAAhoops » Sat Feb 25, 2023 2:13 pm

My guess is not the how well your SF knows the plays, it's more than likely has better Passing, Handling, and Basketball IQ ratings than your PG and will commit fewer turnovers. SF are just a taller PG in a lot of cases and I had one before that I used as my backup PG as that is normal. Think Scottie Pipen he was a SF that handled the ball a lot for the Bulls.
The game is deep and you have to really study like a real coach. You have to play to your teams strengths and make minor adjustments as you learn what your team can do. The Pace (speed) of the game can effect turnovers based on how well your team can pass and handle the ball. It takes putting all your teams talents together and playing to their strengths to succeed. Try allowing the game to choose your style of play and lineups and see what it thinks is best for your team as it does a pretty good job of setting that up. Then take over and see how its goes and only make slight changes at a time.
When the game sets up your Association at the start I would not make a lot of big changes as this will have your team playing a style it is suited to play. After you get the hang of playing you can make better decision on what to change and what to stick with. If you want to change the style of play the recruit to that style and slowly change over as you build your team. Starting a new game is like taking over a team from the previous coach and you can't just make wholesale changes without consequences.
Also your recruiting is affected by how well your Scouting Coach is, if he's poor the he isn't evaluating the recruits well. May be why your recruits are not what you think they should be.
I have been playing for years and from my point of view its the best a simulating real basketball.
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Re: Is this a game?

Postby ECHood » Mon Feb 27, 2023 10:51 am

As a pretty avid and experienced player, part of me agrees with the OP that there's too much fog of war going on. In college basketball, programs are supposed to have disadvantages based on size of school, budget, conference prestige etc. But their internal scouts/coaches, not to mention the head coach, aren't supposed to be blind morons who don't know their own players. I'm all for some fog of war on the recruiting trail, but once a player enters a program, to me it should take a month of practice for the coaches to pin down close to exactly the ratings for each of their players and plan accordingly. They might not be good players or they might not work best at certain positions, but I've seen wild changes in the depth chart when asking for a "Suggest Matrix" lineup where not only do some positions change but the ratings your scout tells you and the lineup that whoever (a different assistant?) is giving you are way way off.

When you hit Suggest All or Suggest Matrix, are you getting a lineup based on the real internal ratings of your players, or based on your scout's opinion, or somewhere else? If it's the scout, shouldn't it give you a lineup that hews nearly identically to the player ratings they tell you the players have?

Basically, I like the coach in charge of scouting to give you some fog of war when analyzing recruits and opponents, but not when analyzing your own players.
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Re: Is this a game?

Postby PointGuard » Mon Feb 27, 2023 2:47 pm

The fog of war that's in the game doesn't bother me, but I can understand your point. WIth Gary in the midst of developing CB2023, he's unlikely to see this thread and your comment. So my suggestion, ECHood, is that you send it to him via a Support Ticket.
Last edited by PointGuard on Mon Feb 27, 2023 7:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Is this a game?

Postby ECHood » Mon Feb 27, 2023 3:39 pm

Thanks Point Guard. I was just responding to the OP and thinking out loud while waiting for '23 to come out. I don't think this is worth a Support Ticket, I just wanted to see if anyone else felt the same way. Maybe in a future suggestions thread I'll rework my thoughts.
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Re: Is this a game?

Postby sgran70 » Wed Mar 01, 2023 12:19 pm

NCAAhoops wrote:My guess is not the how well your SF knows the plays, it's more than likely has better Passing, Handling, and Basketball IQ ratings than your PG and will commit fewer turnovers. SF are just a taller PG in a lot of cases and I had one before that I used as my backup PG as that is normal. Think Scottie Pipen he was a SF that handled the ball a lot for the Bulls...


The Pippen example is a good one. Pippen dribbled the ball up the court, but he in no way was a point guard. Playing him as a point forward allowed the Bulls to play without a shrimp PG like Pax or BJ since they didn't ask their guards to do PG stuff like drive and kick (they preferred an MJ drive and dunk). My guess is that this is exactly what the game was trying to tell me: that what my rookie SF lacked in fancy dribbling and setting up the offense he more than made up for in other areas like blocking shots and rebounding.

In any case, thanks for all the feedback. My season ended 13-15, but then I brought in a big who can score inside and everything is fine again this year. My point guards returned for their junior seasons and I'm still unsure if I'm better off with my 3 star SG or a 2 star PG at the 1, but I'm winning so it's now a good problem to have.
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