Stats

[abziani]

https://imgur.com/a/vjJ3SG8 those are the mpg

Check this image… just two players with more than 35 mpg. In real NBA Lebron is Number 20 with the same average.

If the players cannot have minutes tô play, they will never score high PPG and APG.

[Nykmarc]

If I remember correctly the low PPG is tied to the lack of minutes and the lack of minutes are tied to the discipline ratings being too low, which leads to too many fouls

[abziani]

Hi Gary....how are you?
Some news about this topic?

[Gary Gorski]

The stats have been continuously tweaked throughout here. You tell me - how are things looking in the last build?

[abziani]

I can’t. I had the idea to buy the game tomorrow at steam but without this information I will have to skip it….
What I can tell you is that I bought all the other versions of this game and I have already seen those numbers without any kind of improvement (Ddspb 2, Ddspb 3, Ddspb 17, Ddspb 21 and Ddspb 22). I even reported this issue with the minutes per game on retro leagues on Ddspb 22, remember?
But anyway thanks for the information on this topic.

[Gary Gorski]

First I don't know how you can say that numbers have not improved in the game since the start of it when every year I work with them to continue to make them more accurate.

Secondly, I don't know what to tell you or how you can suggest that there is something off with the numbers if you do not have the game at this point. I have tweaked items regarding minutes and stats for the last three builds here in first access and the numbers seem solid to me.

The historical numbers are always going to be less accurate that modern day in terms of MPG because the game was different then and the game plays in a modern day setting. There are no "eras" in the game. You can modify options for three point shooting and pace to try and manipulate the stats in that way but I have always been clear that the historical replay option is really putting the players in a modern day setting. In the 80s guys went out there and played every night, beat the hell out of each other, drank a case of beer after the game and did it again the next game. Today players fall down and need a week off and then play restricted minutes when they come back. Nobody is going to average 40 MPG in today's NBA because even if they do play significant amount of minutes they're going to end up with a handful of games that are blowouts, tank fests, in game injuries and return games that will skew the averages.

Siakam led the league in MPG last year with 37.9 MPG (.3 MPG more than the 20/21 leader Julius Randle) - he had 5 games early in the season where he played 30 or less because he was coming back from injury and there were 5 more games that were blowouts that he played around 30 or less. I looked back at 1986 at random where Bird, MJ and Barkley all averaged 40+ MPG. In games of +/- 18 points Bird played these minutes...40,32,36,38,39,36,39,30,35,32,37,37,40,41. Jordan played 42 minutes in a 21 point victory two nights after playing 50 minutes..and all that 10 days before the playoffs started. That just does not happen today and there is no mechanism in the game to force the game to treat players like teams did back in the 80s and 90s.

FWIW while typing this I ran a simulation of the 2022-23 season. Last year in the NBA 21 players averaged 35+ MPG and like 72 averaged 30-34.9 MPG. In the sim I ran 19 players were at 35+ and another 67 were in the 30-34.9 range with 2 players actually topping Siakam from last season in my simulation. To me that's right in line with how things are. I'm not sure what more I can do. There will be a free demo here tomorrow so you can see for yourself what the MPG are like if that is the difference between you wanting to buy the game or not but I'm telling you right now that the historical MPG are not going to be spot on because the game simply does not treat players like teams did back then.

[Haiku]

FWIW while typing this I ran a simulation of the 2022-23 season. Last year in the NBA 21 players averaged 35+ MPG and like 72 averaged 30-34.9 MPG. In the sim I ran 19 players were at 35+ and another 67 were in the 30-34.9 range with 2 players actually topping Siakam from last season in my simulation. To me that's right in line with how things are. I'm not sure what more I can do. There will be a free demo here tomorrow so you can see for yourself what the MPG are like if that is the difference between you wanting to buy the game or not but I'm telling you right now that the historical MPG are not going to be spot on because the game simply does not treat players like teams did back then.

Hi Gary. Did you ran a test well into the future with generic players? Please refer to binballin's post earlier in this thread. There are only 2 players who average 35+ minutes in 2040, please look at the screenshot. The possible cause is lack of high profile players/superstars who tend to play more.

https://imgur.com/a/vjJ3SG8 those are the mpg

[abziani]

First I don't know how you can say that numbers have not improved in the game since the start of it when every year I work with them to continue to make them more accurate.

Secondly, I don't know what to tell you or how you can suggest that there is something off with the numbers if you do not have the game at this point. I have tweaked items regarding minutes and stats for the last three builds here in first access and the numbers seem solid to me.

The historical numbers are always going to be less accurate that modern day in terms of MPG because the game was different then and the game plays in a modern day setting. There are no "eras" in the game. You can modify options for three point shooting and pace to try and manipulate the stats in that way but I have always been clear that the historical replay option is really putting the players in a modern day setting. In the 80s guys went out there and played every night, beat the hell out of each other, drank a case of beer after the game and did it again the next game. Today players fall down and need a week off and then play restricted minutes when they come back. Nobody is going to average 40 MPG in today's NBA because even if they do play significant amount of minutes they're going to end up with a handful of games that are blowouts, tank fests, in game injuries and return games that will skew the averages.

Siakam led the league in MPG last year with 37.9 MPG (.3 MPG more than the 20/21 leader Julius Randle) - he had 5 games early in the season where he played 30 or less because he was coming back from injury and there were 5 more games that were blowouts that he played around 30 or less. I looked back at 1986 at random where Bird, MJ and Barkley all averaged 40+ MPG. In games of +/- 18 points Bird played these minutes...40,32,36,38,39,36,39,30,35,32,37,37,40,41. Jordan played 42 minutes in a 21 point victory two nights after playing 50 minutes..and all that 10 days before the playoffs started. That just does not happen today and there is no mechanism in the game to force the game to treat players like teams did back in the 80s and 90s.

FWIW while typing this I ran a simulation of the 2022-23 season. Last year in the NBA 21 players averaged 35+ MPG and like 72 averaged 30-34.9 MPG. In the sim I ran 19 players were at 35+ and another 67 were in the 30-34.9 range with 2 players actually topping Siakam from last season in my simulation. To me that's right in line with how things are. I'm not sure what more I can do. There will be a free demo here tomorrow so you can see for yourself what the MPG are like if that is the difference between you wanting to buy the game or not but I'm telling you right now that the historical MPG are not going to be spot on because the game simply does not treat players like teams did back then.

Hi Gary....good to read your asnwer!!! Loved the beer example!!!!

The point here is not about the first and second season you simulate but after some seasons in retro leagues and current leagues (the image uploaded here in this thread shows that). The MPG, PPG and other stats work pretty well after
or three seasons but in the long run the PPG and MPG start to decrease for some reason. Like I said, I saw this happening in other versions of the game. Maybe it is the Discipline of the player, maybe the rotation, I don´t know but it is a fact in DDSPB franchise. I remember that there was a problem in other versions about RPG but after DDSPB20 it was solved. I hope someday we see this PPG and MPG issue fixed too.

[abziani]

FWIW while typing this I ran a simulation of the 2022-23 season. Last year in the NBA 21 players averaged 35+ MPG and like 72 averaged 30-34.9 MPG. In the sim I ran 19 players were at 35+ and another 67 were in the 30-34.9 range with 2 players actually topping Siakam from last season in my simulation. To me that's right in line with how things are. I'm not sure what more I can do. There will be a free demo here tomorrow so you can see for yourself what the MPG are like if that is the difference between you wanting to buy the game or not but I'm telling you right now that the historical MPG are not going to be spot on because the game simply does not treat players like teams did back then.

Hi Gary. Did you ran a test well into the future with generic players? Please refer to binballin's post earlier in this thread. There are only 2 players who average 35+ minutes, see screenshot. The possible cause is lack of high profile players who tend to play more.

https://imgur.com/a/vjJ3SG8 those are the mpg

agree

[Gary Gorski]

Yes I have run the game into the future - the last sim I did in the 2032-2033 season 17 players had 35+ MPG and 9 of those players were game created players. 14 players averaged 24-32 PPG (7 of those game generated), 16 players averaged 10+ rebounds (9 of those game generated), 19 players had 6+ assists (4 of the top 7 were game generated)...to me those numbers are all in line with reasonable expectations