Player versatility

Player versatility

Postby Haiku » Wed Dec 21, 2022 9:31 pm

AI ignores players versatility and sticks to their assigned role as the most important rule when selecting their starting lineup no matter the quality of the players in their roster.
Most notable example is Atlanta who keeps Trae Young on the bench because both he and Dejounte Murray are listed as PG. Instead of playing them both at the same time as PG and SG.
Another example are Minnesota who have two high profile Centers in KAT and Gobert and refuses to use them at the same time.
This also leads to these players being easy to be traded away. For example I got Dejounte Murray for 1 first round pick + 3 star player. Tried the same with Minnesota and got KAT as well.
As a workaround please change Dejounte Murray to SG and KAT to PF if there will be another update of the game soon.
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Re: Player versatility

Postby Gary Gorski » Thu Dec 29, 2022 5:11 pm

In the case of Trae/Murray both are listed as PG only in their position skills (which I will update Murray to SG in the next build) but there is some logic going on in the background there as well that is the "Manu effect" The AI will assess its roster and put a good scoring player (normally a guard) in that 6th man role as the Spurs very often did with Ginobili.

KAT also is only listed as C eligible because he played 100% of his minutes at C last year (and the past few seasons) according to basketball-reference.

The game only knows what its told. It would just not assume that someone who is 6-11/250 and listed as only a center should move over and play PF - it thinks boy this team really has a bad fit with two premier centers. Which is the truth? Does Minnesota have two centers to start or has KAT been a PF all along playing out of position? Not sure we really know the answer to that right now.

This is easily fixable in a league however - just login as the commissioner and use the edit player option to change Towns to a PF (which when testing that does make their lineup start him at 4 and Gobert at 5) and if you change Murray to be a SG it will pair him and Young in the backcourt
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Re: Player versatility

Postby genie2369 » Fri Dec 30, 2022 2:06 am

Yes that will work in a NBA league but in a fictional league the game does not look at the player abilities to see if they can play multiple position. I think it takes away from the AI ability to play their best lineup. There is too much weigth place in the algorythm on the primary position
Last edited by genie2369 on Fri Dec 30, 2022 8:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Player versatility

Postby jlemmen43 » Fri Dec 30, 2022 5:00 pm

genie2369 wrote:Yes that will work in a NBA league but in a fictional league the game does not look at the player abilities to see if they can play multiple position. I think it takes away from the AI ability toplay their best lineup. There is too uch weigth place in the algorythm on the primary position


Just a thought...it's not really realistic for the AI to play their best lineup all the time. They obviously can make mistakes and value skills differently. So short of editing positions as commissioner, it might not be bad to just let the AI mis-optimize. I'm sure there's cases in real life of players never playing a position even though they were better suited for it because the coach was stubborn? Idk
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Re: Player versatility

Postby genie2369 » Fri Dec 30, 2022 8:44 pm

jlemmen43 wrote:
genie2369 wrote:Yes that will work in a NBA league but in a fictional league the game does not look at the player abilities to see if they can play multiple position. I think it takes away from the AI ability to play their best lineup. There is too much weigth place in the algorythm on the primary position


Just a thought...it's not really realistic for the AI to play their best lineup all the time. They obviously can make mistakes and value skills differently. So short of editing positions as commissioner, it might not be bad to just let the AI mis-optimize. I'm sure there's cases in real life of players never playing a position even though they were better suited for it because the coach was stubborn? Idk


It is not so much about playing the best lineup it is more about playing a player out of position if he has the ability to do that. "Example: a 6'3" SF unless the commish sets him up to play PG or SG and SF or even all three. The Ai will only focus on playing him at SF."
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Re: Player versatility

Postby jlemmen43 » Sat Dec 31, 2022 12:09 am

genie2369 wrote:It is not so much about playing the best lineup it is more about playing a player out of position if he has the ability to do that. "Example: a 6'3" SF unless the commish sets him up to play PG or SG and SF or even all three. The Ai will only focus on playing him at SF."
Ok I wasn't quite sure if I grasped what Haiku was getting at or not. So basically in your situation, the SF is only checked to play SF and the AI doesn't ever adjust his available positions? Am I getting that correct?
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Re: Player versatility

Postby genie2369 » Mon Jan 02, 2023 12:22 pm

jlemmen43 wrote: Ok I wasn't quite sure if I grasped what Haiku was getting at or not. So basically in your situation, the SF is only checked to play SF and the AI doesn't ever adjust his available positions? Am I getting that correct?


Yes that is correct.
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Re: Player versatility

Postby Haiku » Mon Jan 02, 2023 2:24 pm

jlemmen43 wrote:
genie2369 wrote:It is not so much about playing the best lineup it is more about playing a player out of position if he has the ability to do that. "Example: a 6'3" SF unless the commish sets him up to play PG or SG and SF or even all three. The Ai will only focus on playing him at SF."
Ok I wasn't quite sure if I grasped what Haiku was getting at or not. So basically in your situation, the SF is only checked to play SF and the AI doesn't ever adjust his available positions? Am I getting that correct?


On my save Trae Young is used as a replacement of D. Murray and is getting only about 10 minutes of action per game. Both do not play together.
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Re: Player versatility

Postby Gary Gorski » Tue Jan 03, 2023 1:33 pm

The AI does not tend to force players out of their assigned available positions unless necessary because it assumes it a) already assigned it proper positions when the player was created or does not want to change what you have decided that player should or should not do. Now if you have nobody to fill a role the AI will try to find the best player it can to do that but otherwise its not going to mess with it. It is also going to prioritize primary positioning for the best players so in the case of KAT and Gobert...KAT is a better player so if it thinks they are only both centers its going to let KAT play his position and then look to see if Gobert could go somewhere else which he can't. The AI really doesn't look and say let me play my best player out of position so that a lesser player can play his spot.
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