Transfers

[JHopkins19]

Gary/Beta Testers,

Incredible job with the game. Very stable build and love the new additions.

I know in the modern CBB game, transfers are going to be a big thing. I even have taken advantage of it in my current game where I've brought in a Senior Post and the next season a Senior Guard and in both cases, they helped me plug immediate holes.

What I'm struggling with is the amount of players I've recruited/signed who then transfer out after a season. I do appreciate the "reasoning" we get now when they transfer out. However, in my testing, when I save and reload, the reasons can change regularly. I'm also struggling with the reasoning players leave "too much competition" or "wants more minutes" when they have a Coach and Team Relationships of 100% and are "not too concerned" about playing time and with players graduating, are going to be the undisputed starter. It would be easier to wrap my head around if they were a "disruptive force" and a huge pain in the team and then left.

Is there an appetite to look at transfers dial it back a bit? Or is it possible to mimic was NCAA Football did back in the day where you could use a portion of your recruiting budget to "convince" those players to stay. That would be cool.

In the current state, I've found myself saving/reloading or even switching off the "modern transfer rules" because there wasn't a way for me to convince myself of a rising sophomore, who got 10 minutes a game as a backup guard, is not concerned about minutes, and has 100% team and coach relationships, with the starter graduating and gone, to then transfer.

Hope this makes sense and happy to elaborate further.

Loving the game!!!

[Wayne23]

I think this is a great start with transfers. I have no doubt that Gary will watch and see for awhile and then this season or next he will tweak it. I'm sure he wants feedback so good post!

[Phatman]

I very much agree, we should be able to tell guys to hit the transfer portal and also if someone transfers we should be able to recruit them back to our team. Please don't wait until 24 to do it. Do it soon.

[Gary Gorski]

The portal opened today and on the first day with a bunch of teams still preparing for postseason play 170 players already entered. I have already dialed the game back compared to what the number of real life transfers are and I really don't want to dial it back more (especially since the old method exists as an option still). It really adds a specific dynamic to the game where its an immediate rebuild option and in order to do that it needs a fairly realistic number of players.

Let me address your example - rising sophomore who is playing 10 mpg...if this kid has NBA potential you've absolutely already killed his draft stock because two seasons in and he's only a backup playing 10 minutes? Most scouts would feel he's obviously not good if he's a backup after two years still. Also who are you recruiting? If you've recruited someone with pretty much similar potential he's seeing a position battle with someone two years younger so while it might be your intention he starts how does he know he can trust that when he's hardly played so far?

Sometimes the transfer logic is harsh because you have a plan to develop a player and the players for the most part don't want plans to be developed. They want opportunity yesterday and a quarter of the game just isn't going to cut it.

I don't want to reveal the actual logic or what metrics you need to hit to increase your chances but definitely if you want to improve your chances of not losing kids you have to play them more - maybe they're not ready for it but the players think they are in most cases so you might have to try and get creative with ways you could protect a weaker guy on the floor or get him in minutes that probably won't do much harm or things like that.

As for recruiting guys back...I am not aware of this actually happening much (if it all) so far in the transfer portal. If you have some numbers to show that this is happening I will certainly look as an opportunity to add it in but so far it seems when players decide they leave, they leave.

[Phatman]

Gary, I honestly don't think we will be able to find players being recruited back stat. I'm pretty sure that is more of a private conversation between coach and player. Maybe the player was stuck behind a good senior/player and since the senior or better player is graduating or being drafted, now is his time to shine. Can it be a cost to our recruiting budget then?

[jfsolo23]

The portal opened today and on the first day with a bunch of teams still preparing for postseason play 170 players already entered. I have already dialed the game back compared to what the number of real life transfers are and I really don't want to dial it back more (especially since the old method exists as an option still). It really adds a specific dynamic to the game where its an immediate rebuild option and in order to do that it needs a fairly realistic number of players.

Let me address your example - rising sophomore who is playing 10 mpg...if this kid has NBA potential you've absolutely already killed his draft stock because two seasons in and he's only a backup playing 10 minutes? Most scouts would feel he's obviously not good if he's a backup after two years still. Also who are you recruiting? If you've recruited someone with pretty much similar potential he's seeing a position battle with someone two years younger so while it might be your intention he starts how does he know he can trust that when he's hardly played so far?

Sometimes the transfer logic is harsh because you have a plan to develop a player and the players for the most part don't want plans to be developed. They want opportunity yesterday and a quarter of the game just isn't going to cut it.

I don't want to reveal the actual logic or what metrics you need to hit to increase your chances but definitely if you want to improve your chances of not losing kids you have to play them more - maybe they're not ready for it but the players think they are in most cases so you might have to try and get creative with ways you could protect a weaker guy on the floor or get him in minutes that probably won't do much harm or things like that.

As for recruiting guys back...I am not aware of this actually happening much (if it all) so far in the transfer portal. If you have some numbers to show that this is happening I will certainly look as an opportunity to add it in but so far it seems when players decide they leave, they leave.

Yeah, with the old method still being available for folks to use, don't water down the experience even more.

[Gary Gorski]

There should be public news of instances where a player entered the portal and came back (I don't even know if that is allowed to be honest - I would have to research it) but I guess what you are suggesting is trying to talk him out of entering the portal. I don't mind the idea but I have a couple of issues with it that need to be worked out (and this is with anything, I never just add something)

1. If this can take place when in the game can it happen? Like do I have to recode things to try and squeeze in another stage somehow? This becomes tricky with something that is already a launched game because changing how it works could lead to errors.

2. How does it work for multiplayer leagues?

3. How successful can this really be? There were 1500 players in the portal last summer I believe so is anyone really being talked out of it? I am sure coaches wish they could talk most of those players out of it but realistically how many did? You would have to have like 15 successes to even have a one percent success rate. Is anyone going to like this if they fail 99 times out of 100? If you make the success rate something reasonably attainable (which it seems is what you want) then that has to go for the AI too which if you cut out transfers by like 25% all you are going to do is end up with a watered down transfer portal.

4. What is a downside to doing this? It can't just be upside of keeping the player. There would have to be a downside like angering the rest of the players or causing even more to want to transfer next time because they see a player being rewarded for complaining and threatening to leave.

I understand the desire as a player that you don't want to lose a guy you really liked or whatever and that is understandable but there is at least the flip side that you can immediately recruit a new player to fill his place by using the portal yourself (or use the prior method where players did not transfer that often). I am definitely willing to have a discussion about it but these are the things right off the top of my head that come up as questions on how to handle something like this and is it worth it?

[PointGuard]

I thought the addition of the Transfer Portal for CB2022 was an extremely exciting (and realistic) aspect of the game. And its evolution within CB2023 has improved it. Personally I like that some players decide to transfer unexpectedly. Unpredicability is a very real apsect of college basketball. And while occasionally it's a guy I really liked playing for me, the opportunity to try to go after transfer players with the possibility that they will be as good or hopefully better than those I lose is a fun and challenging aspect of the game.

And it's good that there is the option to use the old transfer system (which has far fewer players transferring). But if I've set up an association that is present-day, I'm going to use the Transfer Portal that makes things closer to today's reality.

[JHopkins19]

Good conversations. Thanks to Gary and other for chiming in. Here is my concern/challenge.

Specific to the example I cited above, the player in question was:

High 3 star, 250-350 in ranking. Playing time was his lowest concern while being recruited and on his player card as a freshman was "not concerned at all" about playing time. His parents weren't involved in the recruitment. During the season he played back up minutes, his coach and team relationship was at or near 100% throughout. He was involved in zero incidents. Then he transfers for more playing time. How am I, as a coach/leader of the program, supposed to know there is any concern?

Now, if this was a player (regardless of rank) where playing time was his #1 (or high) concern, I used it on my visit trip to convince him to sign, he then rode the bench/played sparingly, his coach relationship plummeted. Now we're talking and I totally get why he would transfer. Get me the hell out of here! ha.

The second example makes perfect sense. The first example is a game breaking mechanic for me. And if thats just me, totally fine. I'll just save/reload or I'll move back to the old transfer rules. Thats definitely not my preference, because I loved being able to plug and play a senior transfer from a small school who over-performed his school/conference and used it to transfer up. Made perfect sense and I benefited from it.

I'll even give a third example where I lost a player I didn't want to lose, but it made total sense and I thought it was great. I recruited a SF who I missed having a bad personality as I recruited him and he came in with "disruptive force." He started as a freshman and the incidents weren't too bad and we progressed as a team. I recruited over him with a better SF the next season who started as a freshman and the now disruptive force sophomore was relegated to backup status. His team/coach relationships went down, incidents went up, and he transferred int he offseason. Makes perfect sense.

I don't mind there being a ton of transfers. Its the world we live in and appreciate Gary building it into the game. I just want to be able to follow the logic of when I lose a player. Hope this helps and appreciate the conversation!

[blazertaz13]

Here is my take on the first example above (just how I explain it to myself):

If I have a player rated as high as you mentioned and is a rotation player, but still only picks up only 6-10 minutes per game, then he leaves during the transfer portal. My thought is that he has people in his ear throughout the season, parents, friends or others telling him he should be starting. At some point, he listens to those people and decides to transfer. Not much I could do about it, but without penalties of the past of sitting out, the player just decides to move on.

It is one of those things that will never make sense to me in the real world, so .....